Subject: #1(2) TRAVELLER digest 240
Date: 95-03-31 15:39:07 EST
From: traveller@mpgn.com
Sender: traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to: traveller@mpgn.com
To: traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)



			    TRAVELLER Digest 240

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: TRAVELLER digest 239	by muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com (John Kovalic)
  2) Re:TRAVELLER digest 236	by CyHiggin@aol.com
  3) Alternate material list.	by Caffein Achiever! <fok@chaph.usc.edu>
  4) What's the (anti) matter?	by "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
  5) FFS:  Laser Weapons	by pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
  6) Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see	by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
  7) Re: Re: Virus Plausibility (TD#235)	by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
  8) Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see	by E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
  9) TRAVELLER Digest 239	by "Harold D. Hale" <HDHALE@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
 10) Reply to the Reply to the Reply to Mr. Long.	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
 11) Re: Re: Virus Plausibility (TD#235)	by Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
 12) Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see	by Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 19:21:43 -0600
From: muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com (John Kovalic)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 239
Message-ID: <199503310121.TAA05672@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com>


>O.K., so what does it take?  Well, perferably you should have been here
>at least a year before the List crashed back in about last September.
>The Collapse is the great divide between
>
>The OldTimers (ie. people who apparently have been playing the game
>  since Reagan's first term)

Egads! I could have SWORN I'd started late in the Carter administration! :-[


           /\
****//\\**********************************************************
       // * \\                    ----------------------
     //        \\                  The Servants of Kovalic
   //______\\                ----------------------
   -------------
Hat Trick*Tornado*Read My Lips*Peace in Our Time*Market Manipulation*Bigger
Business*Murphy's Law*Rewriting History*Deasil Engine*Energy Crisis*Tax
Reform*France*Japan*Cable TV*Fraternal Orders*L-4 Society* Multinational
Oil Companies*Germany*Israel* Liquor Companies*.......Ours, alllllll OURS!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! (THWACK!) Sorry.
*******************************************************************



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 00:25:32 -0500
From: CyHiggin@aol.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re:TRAVELLER digest 236
Message-ID: <950330234947_66908796@aol.com>

From: Derek Wildstar

>technology - from computers to copiers - is a kind of magic item; 
>if one performs the ritual incantations, the gods will smile upon 
>you and it will print your document.

Ahh... I see that you, too, have tried to send a Postscript file via
Windows to a network printer.... :-)

<lcdavis@mailbox.syr.edu>

>In the late 1950's, the creator of "Buck Rogers" postulated a 
>weapon that he called a "ray gun" for his fictional universe.  
>Scientists of that day scoffed at the idea.  Less than five years 
>later lasers were invented.

[nitpick mode on]

"Armageddon 2419", the original "Buck Rogers" novel, was
published a wee bit earlier than the 1950s -- it came out shortly
after WWI, in the 20s.  As for scoffing at "ray guns", they were
scoffing at the Martian Heat Ray in H.G.Well's "War of the Worlds"
back in the 1890's....

                                                   --- Cynthia

p.s. I'm an old-timer? Really?  Wow!  Gee, when I came on, the
Real Old Timers were Rob Dean, Mike Metlay, George Herbert,
Scott "2G" Kellogg.... Come to think of it, it has been awhile...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 2:12:06 PST
From: Caffein Achiever! <fok@chaph.usc.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Alternate material list.
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.2.796644726.fok@phakt.usc.edu>

A number of people have requested that I post the alternate material list I
put together for my campaing.  

***************************************************************************
	WARNING: BORING TECHNICAL MUMBO JUMBO TO FOLLOW
		NO PLOT TWIST OR ADVENTURE IDEAS HERE
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)::):)::):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
***************************************************************************

				Taking a cue from GDW, this materials are
copyrighted and are made available for PERSONAL use/private gaming session
only.  exception being where names of materials are from technical papers and
journals that I used in preparing this list.

Background:
The following list was made for a Hard SF setting I've been piecing
together in my spare time over the past three years.  If you'll like
more information on the materials I mentioned in the list below, feel
free to email me privately as the discussion maybe beyond the interest
of the TML group.  Hope this list prove insightful and interesting!

Tough=Toughness
Mass=metric ton per cubic meters
Cost=MCr per cubic meters

TL Description       Tough   Mass   Cost    Remarks
5  Soft Steel        1.70    7.8    0.0022  
6  Hardened Steel    2.00    7.8    0.0026  
7  Super Steel 
   Alloy             2.50    7.8    0.0052  Inconel, Hastalloy,
                                            etc.
10 Foam Steel Alloy  2.13    6.24   0.0034  Zero gravity
                                            manufacturing
                                            required
11 Reinforced Foam   4.34    5.968  0.0109  Reinforced with
                                            carbide whiskers
   Steel Alloy       
6  Aluminum Alloy    1.00    2.7    0.0037  
7  Improved 
   Aluminum Alloy    1.10    2.6    0.0042  
9  Aluminum Lithium
   Alloy             1.10    2.4    0.0046  Spray deposition
                                            alloy
10 Aluminum Lithium 
   Foam              0.94    1.92   0.0049  Zero gravity
                                            manufacturing
                                            required
11 Reinforced Foam 
   Aluminum Alloy    3.45    2.08   0.0249  Reinforced with
                                            carbide whiskers
6  Titanium Alloy    2.50    4.9    0.0102  
7  Advanced Titanium
   Alloy             2.60    4.7    0.0111  Beta phase Ti alloys
10 Titanium Alloy 
   Foam              2.34    3.995  0.0117  Zero gravity
                                            manufacturing
                                            required
11 Reinforced Foam 
   Titanium Alloy    4.51    3.9495 0.0342  Reinforced with
                                            carbide whiskers
7  Metallic 
   Laminate          1.20    3.6    0.0042  Structure composed
                                            of combination of
                                            Al, Ti, and Steel
8  Metalic Laminate
   Armor             7.75    11.13  0.0122  Uranium reinforced
                                            armor
9  Advance Metallic 
   Laminate          1.80    4      0.0056  High proportion Ti
                                            in compound material
                                            structures
7  Glass Composite   0.75    1.9    0.0099  Fiberglass
8  Graphite 
   Composite         5.00    2.1    0.0595  2-D weaved graphite
                                            sheets
9  Boron Composite   7.00    2      0.0875  2-D weaved boron
                                            filament sheets
9  Metal Matrix 
   Composite         1.60    2.6    0.0154  2-D graphite
                                            reinforced Aluminum
                                            Alloy
10 Composite Matrix 
   Armor             9.61    9.54   0.0252  2-D boron reinforced
                                            uranium backed Ti
                                            armor.
10 Ceramic Matrix 
   Composite         1.25    1.3    0.0240  composite whiskers
                                            embedded in a
                                            ceramic matrix
8  Laminated 
   Composite         6.25    2.415  0.0647  2-D graphite
                                            laminate
9  Ceramic Laminated 
   Composite (CLC)   3.60    1.8    0.0500  Layered graphite
                                            composite and
                                            ceramic sheets
10 Improved CLC      5.10    1.75   0.0729  Boron whiskers
                                            interlaced with
                                            ceramic whiskers
10 Synthetics        3.75    1.4    0.0804  Molecular engineered
                                            polymer material
11 Improved 
   Synthetics        5.63    1.5    0.1125  Covalent bond
                                            reinforced molecular
                                            structure
12 Synthetic Armor   9.84    2      0.1477  Variable hardness
                                            and tailored
                                            covalent bond
                                            material
12 Improved Structural 
   Synthetics        1.70    1.2    0.0213  Low cost synthetic
                                            material
13 Electropolymorphic 
   Synthetics        4.00    1.5    0.3188  Toughness increased
                                            to 40 with
                                            application of 1 MW
11 Metal Ceramic 
   Alloy             2.88    2.22   0.0195  Ceramic carbide
                                            whiskers in Foam
                                            Aluminum matrix
12 Improved Metal Ceramic 
   Alloy             6.20    2.997  0.0311  3-D ceramic carbide
                                            whiskers in foam Ti
                                            alloy matrix
12 Metal Ceramic 
   Armor             13.13   6.4625 0.0406  Alloy of Uranium     
                                                                 ceramic
carbide and
                                                                 foam Ti
13 Metal Ceramic 
   Alloy             1.67    2.725  0.0092  Pseudo alloy formed
                                            by molecular bond
                                            bet. Ti & ceramic


=================================| I will not torment the emotionally frail
Edward Fok			 | I will not torment the emotionally frail
University of Southern California| I will not torment the emotionally frail
EE-Electrophysics Department	 |            -The SIMPSONS

------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:49:48 +0000
From: "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: What's the (anti) matter?
Message-ID: <199503311049.LAA24856@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk>

Firstly thanks for all the input about Domain/Norris et al, I'm glad 
you all replied. Virus vs Primordils will probably run similar to 
Anoxia vs Productivity (for all you geochemists), big bang vs steady 
state etc and never the twain shall meet. Hey that's the whole idea, 
it would be pretty sad if we all had the same universes.

Anyway, changing the subject, how much fuel is a ship powered by a 
anti matter power plant going to need? I,m a geologist not a 
physicist , so I'm sure there are better people out there who can 
make a wild stab at the dark for me.. 

Bob. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 21:08:30 +0800
From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: FFS:  Laser Weapons
Message-ID: <9503311308.AA18077@phq1002.wapol.gov.au>

I'm trying to wrap my brain around the calculations for designing
laser weapons in FF&S.  Does anyone have a 'ballpark' figure
for energy output for say, a laser rifle?

If I can get a rough idea of what is a reaonable figure, I'll
be in a much better position to get both weapons and an Excel
5.0 worksheet going for man-portable laser weapons.  (Carriage
and vehicle mounted lasers come next).

Thanx
Michael Bailey, Police Dept. of Western Australia:  pd82495@wapol.gov.au
                        Any opinions expressed above are strictly my own.
     "..when you list all the qualities that you despise and you realise, 
          you're describing yourself"    Marillion, 'the Rake's Progress'

------------------------------

Date: 27 Mar 1995 23:51:01 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see
Message-ID: <1081274334.7801876@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

>Critters.  A few pages on some basic animals.  Herd animals, work beasts,
>luxury pets, riding animals, etc.  A good spot for an artist with sketchpad
>full of animal beasts to provide colour to the article.

Try the book "The New Dinosaurs", by Dougal Dixon.  Good artwork, and as the
animals are based on familiar Terran niches you can get the stats from T2k
(or guestimate easily).  See my earlier tirade on experts and believability
to get my opinion on most published Traveller animals (low).  Now if a
biologist was to write up an expansion to the animal rules...


>Another book on my wish list is FF&S II.  This is the manual that covers
>some ot the vital stuff that the first one missed.  "Wet" ship design,
>robots, primitive transport & genetic engineering are the topics that leap
>to mind.

Converting Terry's Wet Navy rules to TNE is relatively simple; I did a Q&D
last week.  I've asked him to do an official rewrite but had no response -
but I think this is his busy season.  Did you know that he had a naval
architect for the Royal Navy proof his Challenge article?  Now there's a
writer who takes his job seriously!


>Conversion rules, SPACE:1889 to House Rules.  This would probably best be
>done as a series of articles.  Not only does it cater to the Pith Helmet
>Crowd (tm), but it gives good background for worlds at that techlevel in the
>Traveller universe (minus the liftwood and Ether Proppellers).

I disagree here.  TNE has too many rules to bother with this.  I've run a few
Space: 1889 games using Dream Park rules.  Email me privately if you'd like
the scenarios.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Mar 1995 00:19:55 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Re: Virus Plausibility (TD#235)
Message-ID: <1182134270.7802220@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:

>Bingo, Rob - you've just hit the nail on the head.

>Anybody who's worked in the field of computer hardware architecture, network
>design, or computer security can poke many holes in the pseudo-technical
>gobbedygook behind GDW's Virus.  So we're left having to accept the virus as
>a "magic" item which defies logical explanation or prediction (and therefore
>ruins the basis of a hard-SF roleplaying game, just as surely as if someone
>had written Alladin's Magic Lamp into _The Hunt for Red October_)

Possibly, but you seem to have ignored what I was trying to point out, which
is that an expert will find problems in the rules no matter what they are. 
Take it from me; I reffed a group of scientists and engineers including:
electrical, mechanical, and industrial engineers, a physicist, biologist,
epidemiologist, businessman, and a computer scientist.  I regularly got taken
to task because the expert, realising that the situation I presented could
not be natural (was technically impossible, etc), decide that This Was A Clue
and promptly began to investigate.

Some examples include:

- ecosystems, biomass, bioenergy and nutrient flows
- thermodynamics (waste heat, especially)
- orbital eccentricity and orbital placement
- all the economics rules
- pre-Virus computer systems and expert systems
- manufacturing and repair rules
- disease, public health, quarantine regulations

The compromise we arrived at was that the expert would point out 'the clue'
to me, and I would tell them whether their character noticed anything unusual
(it was a clue) or not (the rules were inaccurate).  We ended up with a
distinct "game reality" where many 'natural laws' didn't apply, mainly
because we didn't want to redesign the entire published universe, all
published equipment, etc.  Most of these comments got channelled back to GDW;
some were incorporated in TNE, but more were left out because of playability.

I apply two acid tests when evaluating an 'incorrect' rule or plot device:

1) Is it simpler/faster/easier than a more accurate version?
2) Is it plausible to a scientifically literate person who is not an expert
in that field?

If the answer is yes to both, then I will usually not bother to correct it,
even if I know it's wrong.

(As a paranthetical aside, friends of mine in the armed forces don't like
Clancy's books because he "places too much faith on technology working
correctly".  Having served in combat, they feel that Clancy _is_ 'rubbing a
magic lamp'.)

Finally, note that Virus is rare.  (Although I'll admit it has been very
prominent in Challenge and S&G.)  Your players could plausibly adventure for
years without encountering it, so leaving it out of your campaign should be
easy.  Assume that high-tech synaptic computers break down quickly (so few
relic computers function and none can be trusted without thorough testing)
and you can get much the same effect - probably close enough to use most of
GDW's material.  Anything else, ignore.  (Hey, that's what I do with the
combat-type stuff anyway.)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:52:38 EST
From: E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see
Message-ID: <0098E310.4B558F20.63@v2.qub.ac.uk>

Hi,
Here's my TNE supplement wish-list for your perusal, and appologies, I'm
new to mailing lists and can't incorporate previous messages.
(1) A sourcebook incorporating maps+data on the RC worlds, Soleean and Kidean
Empires, Guild and other Starfaring worlds in the Old Expanses and Diaspora
Sectors (e.g. Bail 4), and the Cov. of Suffren. This would include naval
strengths of all worlds, both Starships and SDB's, and would thus have 
the disposition of the Aubani Navy, amongst many planetary navys of the RC.
Maps and data would be a la Path of Tears, but have cities named on it.
(2) Like (1) but covering the official Pocket Empires.
(3) A new era Known space atlas.
(4) Cemetary World recovery guide a la RCEG.
(5) Challenge incorporating a new ship list, so we know when 
RCES and RCN ships come on line, or when they are due to come on line.
(6) I digress, but are there any Alien races in the Old Ex and 
Diaspora apart from the TNE mentioned ones.
 
No sig yet.
E.P.Watters, QUB.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 11:45:47 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <HDHALE@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TRAVELLER Digest 239
Message-ID: <sf7beb26.035@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>

Alvin Plummer writes:

>O.K., so what does it take?  Well, perferably you should have
>been here  at least a year before the List crashed back in
>about last September.   

   I wasn`t here a year, but at least a couple of months as
I recall (close enough). Can`t recall if I posted anything,
but I did lurk a lot.

>The Collapse is the great divide between The OldTimers (ie.
>people who apparently have been playing the game since
>Reagan's first term), who usually only post rarely (and who
>are missed:  Glenn noted a while ago that the List suffer's
>for their absence)
>
>and...
>
>The YoungBloods (ie. people who have been posting to the List
>only since after the Collapse),who are simply not as steeped
>in Traveller lore as the OldTimers (Though some of us are
>pretty good in the sciences, and I do what I can with
>politics, personalities, adventures, and worlds)

   You also forgot...

   People who have played Traveller since Carter or Reagan was
in office and now find themselves stepping out on to the
information superhighway for the first time. It would appear
there are a number of them. Believe it or not, not every
Traveller player on the surface of Terra has an Internet
account.

   You also forgot...

   People who played Traveller back during the Carter and Reagan
Eras, who picked up MegaTraveller, didn`t like it and stopped
playing...and those who`s lives got too damn busy to mess with
RPGs during the late 80s early 90s, but now have the free time 
to play and picked up TNE.

>"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood
>for."
>                               -Strephon, 179-1126

   Stepping out on your job so that you can go joy riding
around the stars?


John Kovalic, the voice of dissent writes:

>Call me the voice of dissent. As a non-mathematician, FFS is
>as incomprehensible to me as the Virus seems to so many out
>here. I envy people -honestly -who can pick it up and
>produce a starship in a day or two. I'm still working on
>conversions from MT days. There must be more than a handful of
>us out here who would put FF&S II at the END of their wish
>list.

   I got as far as Geometry in High School (a sophomore, or 
second year class) and that was it. I majored in History at the
local state university and generally avoided math courses
(with the exception of a couple of statistics courses) ever
since. I have no problem with the formulas in FF&S, nor should
anyone who has taken (and passed) a high school math course.

   In your defense....

   No one can pick up FF&S and design their first starship
in a day or two. The problem is that there are so many options.
Start off with a basic design philosophy, evolved from playing
a game or two of Brillant Lances and/or looking over the 
designs featured in the back of the TNE book. Once you have
a good idea of what it is that you like in a ship (butt-kicking
sensors, lasers over missiles, maximum possible armor, at least
60 G-turns of fuel), then start to put one together. If you
can#t put everything you want into the design, adjust your
design philosophy (``I`d like to carry 60 G-turns of fuel, but
I just don`t have the volume...humm...what if I made it 50?).
Show your design to others (I`ll look at anything....once :) )
who have a working knowledge of the rules, a little constructive
criticism can go a long way (and there`s nothing worse than
working in a design vacuum). Since you`ve apparently done some
designing before, this might seem like old hat, but I hope I`ve
been it least a little helpful.


Bob Brown writes:

>The Primorials havn't been the best idea by DGP,  but they
>have come up with some good ones in the past so I think
>the're forgiven. As to whether they are "official" or not;
>well look  at the names associated with GDP: Marc Miller, Joe
>Fugate, Rob  Caswell & Tom Rodgers. Ring a few bells? 

   That`s DGP, Bob.  Marc Miller was never associated with
Digest Group Publications. His name was used in the credits
(after all, he did write the *original* game), but that was
just a formality.

>Well take a look in the  credits of the MT books, top of the
>list M. Miller, so I think that  what they write is reasonably
>"official". 

   Once again, a formality. The creative vision of most of
what went on with MegaTraveller was the result of the work of
the people at DGP (which, by the way, has long since went belly
up). So far as I know (and once again Loren can correct me if
I#m wrong), things produced for GDW by DGP are official--things
produced and published by DGP prior to the publication of `Hard 
Times` (when Dave Nilsen takes creative control) are also
official. Items produced and published by DGP after that time
(1991) are not.

>I don't think that the  Primodials actually riped the Zhodani 
>apart, merely stretched them  somewhat.

   They didn`t rip up the Zhodani because according to canon,
that did *not* happen. If you want to run a variant where the
Primordials trash the Consulate, that`s your business.


Ethan Henry writes:

>Anyways, by this logic, most starship computers have the  same
>capacity for intelligence as a worm or bug -little, if not
>none.

   Not exactly. At TL 15, regular computers can emulate AI
so well, only a computer expert can tell the difference.
The problem is that they are still to a degree deterministic.
For those of you who watch Star Trek Voyager, think of the
emergency medical doctor. He is a hologram (God how that
phrase gets miss used!) that has been programmed with the
accumlated medical knowledge of dozens of doctors, has access
to an extensive library of medical information, and even
appears to have a personality. Someone walking into the room
would have no reason to believe that he was anything other
than a walking, talking human being, and a skilled physician
to boot. But he is not artifically intelligent (at least not
yet). In the Traveller universe, there are robots and
computers that have the capabilities (and perhaps the
irritable personality) of the EM Doc. It is just the matter
of a tech level before they could cross the line into true 
sentience.

>So, my question is, how can the Virus come along and make your
>pokey Model 2/bis into a super-duper highly intelligent Virus
>computer?? This seems akin to a disease that make earthworms
>into rocket scientists.

   The only truly limiting factor on Virus is space. If there
is enough disk (or whatever they use at higher tech levels)
space, the Virus expands itself to its full potential. If
not, it partially or even completely `zips` or condenses
itself. When completely zipped, it is called an `egg`.
This is the form it commonly takes when it infects a hand
computer or similar device (I postulated in `Playland` an
adventure that was recently published in Challenge, that
a Virus egg could be stored on an electronic device
equipped with a transmitter which would be implanted in
some hapless human who would act as a courier--this has some
rather chilling implications). In something like a 2bis,
you#d probably end up with a only partially expanded Virus.
A Forrest Gump strain if you will (``life is like a box of
chocolates...you never know which one you#re going to kill
first``). This would make it easy to contain and destroy, and
this is why so many smaller spacecraft survived the Collapse 
(aside from lower maintenance).

>Is this Traveller or Star Trek?

   If only GDW had one-tenth of the money Paramount had made
off of Trek, we would be discussing the finer points of the
latest Traveller animated series, and the implications of
GDW`s offer to purchase TSR at twice its market value.

>At least the gum control war is over,

   Oh yeah?  Been to Singapore lately?


Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:11:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Reply to the Reply to the Reply to Mr. Long.
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950331090700.29133A-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

After a brief overview of what the mail brought in...

                     >> Ooooh, A flamewar! <<

Well, since I always seem to lose these things, I should tread carefully.
And bring out that reinforced asbastos suit I got, curtesy of USENET.

From: LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
> 
> >Welcome to the Club of the Attention-Deprived!
> 
> Well personally, this is not the way I invisoned interacting with other 
> players, this list sure could learn a few things from the Shadowrun List, 
> after all were all in this for fun :)

( Curiosity ALERT! )
What's on the Shadowrun list that we should learn here?

I said:
> >Speaking as a mediocre TML Personality (not as legendary as Cynthia or 
> Wildstar, but more well-known than the average silent TML'er), it seems 
> that *you* want to start fresh and interesting new discussions, banter 
> with the OldTimers, have your wrath feared across _both_ List's, and 
> generally be Big Man on Campus.

You said: 
> Not quite what I want is to simply have those people who seem to think they
> can crawl inside of the heads of all players realize, that they are not the
> end-all and be all of TRAVELLER.  ;)


I REALLY should have put a smilely at the end of that paragraph!

I was joking, I was joking!!! Calm down! Hold it! Stop before you run me 
through! It was an e

And I assure you, I know that I'm nowhere near the endall and beall of 
the Great Traveller Ethos.

> Don't be so quick to assume...

Warning heeded.  

(Break for work.  Get's tired.  Returns to mail)

> >When you comment on a line of discussion, try to avoid "me-tooism".  
> 
> Do I sound Like a Yes Man ;>

Well, no. (actually, I'm more likely to commit that particular sin than 
you, but anyway...)

> 
> 
> >: A good grasp of what is actually _possible_ (remember, a lot 
>  of folk here have their B.S., Master's, and PhD's: they expect 
>  consistency and logic in their game)  One of the major problems 
>  of Virus is it's apparent lack of connection with reality, and 
>  seemingly "deus ex machina" nature, a problem that - to GDW's 
>  credit - has been partly dealt with.  We await "Vampire Ship's" 
>  for the definitive explaination of what Virus is, and how it isn't 
>  >the same thing as pure magic.
> 
> 
> Damn Aren't we all arrogant, How the hell can we make assumptions, based on


Sir, I haven't got a degree either, know precious little real science, 
and have only a scattering of traveller products (of any era). (just a 
college CS guy.)

Moreover, I only got too read the pre-crash TML only about a week before 
it crashed, and posted exactly one message to it.

> Well Mr. Plummer (AND I HATE BEING TALKED DOWN TO ) 

I'm sorry you interpreted my post that way: it wasn't meant to be a put down.

> I have Been GAMING Since 1980, and I can Not be refered to as a NEWBIE by any 
> stretch of some very un-Interesting imaginations.  

Correct.  I mixed up being a "newbie" on TML with being a "newbie" with 
Traveller.  My apologies.

Which lead's back to the origional question: why don't you get any 
replies to your posts?  If you obtain an answer, notify us.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 14:56:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
To: TNE Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Re: Virus Plausibility (TD#235)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950331143751.12515A-100000@blue>


On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Rob Prior wrote:

> Finally, note that Virus is rare.  (Although I'll admit it has been very
> prominent in Challenge and S&G.)  Your players could plausibly adventure for
> years without encountering it, so leaving it out of your campaign should be
> easy.  Assume that high-tech synaptic computers break down quickly (so few
> relic computers function and none can be trusted without thorough testing)
> and you can get much the same effect - probably close enough to use most of
> GDW's material.  Anything else, ignore.  (Hey, that's what I do with the
> combat-type stuff anyway.)

Just to let everyone know GDW's offical point of view about the Virus:

"Frequency:  Finally, and most importantly, avoid filling your campaign 
 with Virus.  The effects of Virus are omnipresent, but the actual reality 
 of Virus should be rare... "
			
"...if the characters encounter Virus every time they turn around, they 
 will either routinely defeat it or they will die a lot...it will have 
 very little perceived danger value...became an annoying nuisance..."

"..there are limits to your creative energies, no matter how imaginative 
 you are.  Each active Virus should not only be dangerous, it should be 
 unique and fascinating.  So keep them rare to enable you to lavish the 
 time and attention on them, that they deserve, as well as keeping your 
 players guessing."

	Path of Tears, _Virus_, p. 143.

So even GDW tells us to remember what the Virus has done, but it's almost 
gone now.  It's time to rebuild... it's time to go back to the stars...
To help out those who suffered more then others... to fix what was wrong..

..To give us all another chance...

That's why I like Traveller: The New Era.   

                -Shalom Zaidfeld
----
Toronto, CANADA
Internet: cs911408@ariel.cs.yorku.ca



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 15:02:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
To: TNE Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950331145641.12515B-100000@blue>

On Fri, 31 Mar 1995 E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK wrote:

> (4) Cemetary World recovery guide a la RCEG.

Yes!..  This one for sure.  I am in the process of detailing Apollo 
(0436/Aubaine), and trying to come up with some basic rules of Boneyard 
and Administered Territory procedures.

If any one has any ideas regarding the above, please reply. :)

                -Shalom Zaidfeld
----
Toronto, CANADA
Internet: cs911408@ariel.cs.yorku.ca



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End of TRAVELLER Digest 240
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